PZ Myers
I’m especially delighted that PZ Myers, Professor of Biology at the University of Minnesota, and the American Humanist Association’s Humanist of the Year last year, will be giving a public lecture in Queen’s University on Friday evening. His topic will be Complexity and Creationism – Promoting Evolutionary Biology to Non-Specialists.
PZ’s science blog Pharyngula featured the fringe meeting I organised at the Conservative Party conference in 2008 – he was amazed that Conservatives in the UK were sufficiently secular and open minded to allow Professor Richard Dawkins to address a fringe conference.
Advertisement
I take it you would agree with Labour mp Martin Salter’s attack on the pope being a hyprocrite and a bloke in a dress and all the usual guff about covering up abuse. Do you believe it is acceptable to insult Christians in this manner (although he is stepping down). Your views would be much appreciated!
Christians put themselves up as moral stewards – therefore of course it’s right to point out hypocrisy. The Catholic church has been covering up child abuse in its ranks (although it would appear that Sinn Fein has been doing likewise). If one takes a position on a moral pedestal one is certain to be toppled.
Jeff, sexual abuse was regularly ‘covered up’ almost everywhere until the late 80s, when the western world became concerned with child abuse. Frued sowed the seeds of the highly influential “false memory syndrome” theory that taught abuse victims were not really abused at all but were projecting their own guilt about their own childhood sexuality onto adults. Dr GP Lewis recently noted this: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/1231/1224261476404.html
As Fergus O’Donoghue, SJ notes, an Irish police investigation in 2003 found no sign of interference by the Church with evidence and no attempt to obstruct the course of justice.
One of the problems this Protestant church abuse victim in the US points out is the dearth of records in Protestant churches. Despite the fact that sexual abuse rate are higher (at least there) in Protestant churches than the Catholic church, it is much harder to assess how it was dealt with because of a lack of the elaborate central filing system maintained in the Catholic Church.
http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2009/11/church-records.html
In Catholic states, sexual abuse was historically punished with the death penalty. Alas, there are no Catholic countries anymore since Pope Paul VI requested all existing Catholic nations to disestablish the Church. All European states with an established church are Protestant.
Shane, a rather bizarre and somewhat defensive argument. As to whether the abuse is mostly Protestant or Catholic is of no interest to me – it just seems there is an awful lot of clerical abuse. I’d suggest it’s largely because the church teaches that perfectly normal adult sexuality is wrong (such as sex before marriage, sex in marriage with contraception, homosexual sex, masturbation etc) and mostly says nothing about adult/child sexuality. Therefore the sexually naive, confused and guilty are often attracted into clerical roles – as an outlet for various forms of sexual repression. In short religions take a dim view of perfectly normal adult sexuality. The result is sexual activity within the confines of the church and within society at large that is highly damaging i.e. paedophilia, improper family planning, excessive levels of teenage pregnancy and a growing problem of sexually transmitted diseases because of poor education about condoms and safe sex.
Jeff, paedophiles tend to concentrate in professions where they have access to children. So it’s more a case of paedophiles becoming priests than priests becoming paedophiles. That’s why you have so many paedos in caring, teaching, sporting (etc) occupations. Clerical abuse represents just a tiny fraction of total abuse throughout society: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/12/07/story315403517.asp
I’d agree with your point about child abusers becoming priests. I have no idea about the extent of abuse in society at large – the data sets often contradict themselves. One article is not enough to end the discussion. However the wrong seems worse when the very institution that engages in abuse is supposed to be good and moral. It isn’t.
Were the DUP to attack the Catholic Church in the way Martin Salter did it would (rightly) be condemned as sectarian. The Catholic Church does not advance its personnel as moral stewards.
Hypocrisy has never precluded anyone from making authorative judgements. Christ Himself noted the inconsistency in the teaching of the Pharisees and their personal practical application.
“Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders: but with a finger of their own they will not move them.”
Yes but the DUP can’t really criticise the catholic Church because many of the issues relating to sexual repression and bizarre, inappropriate attitudes to normal adult sexuality, apply to the DUP too. The DUP also does hypocrisy pretty well too (Iris Robinson – nuff said). Indeed the DUP’s puritanical positions on sex (as opposed to sexual positions) would be very similar to the Catholic Church’s positions e.g. on homosexuality.
I don’t see anything sectarian in what Martin Salter said. The reference to the pope’s dress was to make an ironic cross-dressing point in relation to the Equality Bill. But then many Christians have very little sense of humour.
Religions CAN be made fun of and CAN be ridiculed. The church is not beyond criticism – indeed given the mumbo jumbo that churches peddle there should be a hell of a lot more fun made of them. I for one will be making more of an effort to do so – I’m inspired by Martin.
Jeff, that article is based on the SAVI report carried out by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre and the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (see here:http://www.oneinfour.org/about/). The statistics are similar throughout the western world.
I’m afraid you do not understand Catholic ecclesiology. The Catholic Church believes herself to be established by Christ for the salvation of sinners. She never makes special claims for the conduct of her members.
Catholic Encyclopedia article on this: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
Indeed. Many religions wriggle out of responsibility that way.
But the Catholic Church does not claim her members are impeccable. She realises they are sinners, like everyone else. I’m sure the Conservative Humanist Association is full of them too, yet I wouldn’t use the misdeeds of CHA members to argue against humanism as a philosophy or ridicule its leader (you?).
Yes but Humanists don’t rant on about sin. In fact we don’t even recognise the concept. We recognise crime, of course, but not sin. Therefore, using the Christian definition there’s probably a lot of sin going on in Humanist circles – but it’s not causing anyone any harm. However, Catholic clerics have been committing crimes – abhorrent crimes – while preaching against sin. Moreover the Pope has had the audacity to make clear his opposition to our equality laws, while his church has systematically stifled – over decades – investigations into clerical abuse. Humanists don’t have paid officials abusing children or preaching about the immorality of homosexuality or contraception – the churches do. Therefore we have every right to point out the hypocrisy of their positions and their pronouncements.
Jeff, most priests are not paedophiles and most paedophiles are not priests. Even if most priests were moral hypocrites, it matters not a jot to the veracity of Catholicism since the primary purpose of the priesthood is in their dispensing of the sacrements not personal elucidation of moral standards.
And you obviously have not read the pope’s remarks – check the splintered sunrise blog I linked to earlier.
and it isn’t indicative of immoral teaching – but immoral practice. It goes without saying that Catholic doctrine condemns paedophilia.