There are a few comments elsewhere on this blog about Martin Salter’s comments about the Pope, his dress and his hypocrisy. Just in case you missed it, here’s a link to the post and a little taster of what Martin wrote. Well said Martin – although I’m not sure we’d agree about much else.
I’ve never been entirely comfortable with the relationship between organised religion and politics. You only have to look across the water at Northern Ireland to understand the minefield that this lethal cocktail can create.
However, yesterday’s comments by the Pope on Britain’s lawmaking could possibly be the first time that a bloke in a dress has complained about equality legislation. According to His Holiness, Harriet Harman’s Equality Bill on how it’s not okay to discriminate against gay people (or old people, or black or disabled people for that matter) “violates natural law”, which is code for saying “we want all the benefits of living in a society where religious freedoms are protected, just as long as we don’t have to afford those protections to others.”
Here’s a better, and much more knowledgeable, blog on this subject:
http://splinteredsunrise.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/secular-liberals-feign-shock-that-pope-doesnt-subscribe-to-secular-liberalism
I take it you applaud David Cameron’s view that the Church of England should be forced to accept full gay equality don’t you?
What was your view on the Conservative party having it’s first gay pride night event in Manchester considering in the past they have been viewed as reactionary in regards to the issue. Furthermore did you agree with the gay age of consent being reduced from 21 to 18 in 1994 then from 18 to 16 in 2000/2001. Your views would be appreciated!
Damien – I didn’t attend but believe Iain Dale, who I respect enormously, played a big part in establishing the ‘gay fringe’ at the Manchester conference. The Party has many gay members so it’s entirely fitting that fringe should reflect that. I’d agree with the reduction in the age of consent. At 16 most people know what they are. I was convinced I liked girls at 16. Why should it be different for those who prefer their own sex?
What is your view on Noicholas Winterton saying that people in Standard Class on trains are a different kind of people altogether!
Winterton, thankfully, will be standing down at the next general election. I won’t miss him.
What harm has the Pope ever done to you? Why all the venom!
No venom. But the guy is hardly beyond reproach when he and his predecessors oversaw massive clerical abuse of children. Oh and then there is the Catholic church’s position on contraception. Oh and abortion. Oh and homosexuality. So he hasn’t done anything to me but he has hardly improved society.
However, I’d put most other “clerical leaders” in the same category – with the notable exception of leaders of liberal humanist organisations such as the Society of Friends.
“Oh and then there is the Catholic church’s position on contraception. Oh and abortion. Oh and homosexuality.”
I can’t see why you’re singling out the Pope though. That is Catholic doctrine. It’s his job to uphold those teachings. I am opposed to abortion, homosexuality, contraception etc. So are many people. Does this mean we also deserve to be protested against? Surely people have a right to these beliefs?
And extremely reactionary Islamic clerics (who would make Pope Benedict look like a latee laden liberal) visit Britain all the time. Why was there no similar ire about the King of Saudi Arabia when he visited Britain? He presides over a kingdom which puts homosexuals and adulterers to death. Religious freedom is non-existent. Saudi Arabia funds extremist Wahabbi mosques and schools throughout the world where children are brainwashed into believing that they have a duty to spread Sharia law and to oppress non-Muslims (and non-Wahabbi Muslims). There’s no outcry about this. Muslims seem to get a lot of free passes that Catholics don’t.
I totally agree re. your second para. But surely you must agree that I don’t single out Catholicism – I’m hopefully pretty equally insulting to all religions that are fundamentally anti-modernist.
No surprise you are a Thatcherite Conservative as Thatcherism appears to your religion and Maggie Thatcher is your God!
Jeff, I think you might find this of interest..
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9548/
Shane, while I’m no defender of the pope or other clerics I’m hardly at the vanguard of New Atheists attacking them. Frankly, most people in the UK choose to ignore churches. But pointing out the hypocrisy of organized religion doesn’t really require ranting campaigns by rabid secularists. It’s pretty self evident.
Why insult Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul 2 just because they uphold the sancity of life with opposition to abortion,eutahnasia and the death penalty and their defence of marriage as between a man and a woman.
Damien suggest you read Brian McClinton’s excellent article in tonight’s Belfast Telegraph.
I was absolutely gobsmacked to read Julie Burchill’s article. She doesn’t just limit her criticisms to the Church hierarchy but goes on a bigoted rant about Catholics collectively in a manner disturbingly characteristic of the way Hitler spoke about the Jews (I do not invoke that comparison lightly and make no apology for doing so)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/julie-burchill/spare-me-lectures-from-the-pope-give-me-juicy-jennifer-any-day-14944867.html
The Belfast Telegraph – like all the O’Reilly rags – is monotonous and one-sided toilet roll. It doesn’t surprise me that its readership numbers are in rapid decline.
What’s your view on people who quote the saying
“It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”